Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  25

  Watchtower Used to Teach Jesus Was Not an Angel and was  "the Lord from Heaven" Who Died on a Cross!

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  no wonder they instructed congregation elders to throw away old literature from kingdon hall libraries.

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  Sea Breeze

  That is not true SBF.
  
  But you are correct that the early Christians referred to Jesus as "God" and "Lord" when referring to him in their writings. That verse reads the same in the Modern English Version as well as several others. It also reads that way in the vast majority of all ancient manuscripts.

  But, that's not the point. The point is that the WT used it as the Word of God, and taught at one time that Jesus was "the Lord from heaven". They also depicted him on a cross as well as debunked the idea that he was an an incarnated angel.

  That was a new one for me when I saw this posted on FB.
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  25

  Watchtower Used to Teach Jesus Was Not an Angel and was  "the Lord from Heaven" Who Died on a Cross!

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  .

  no wonder they instructed congregation elders to throw away old literature from kingdon hall libraries.

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  Sea Breeze

  I think there is a lot here that most JW's today would deny.

  The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second man was the Lord from heaven. - 1 Cor. 15: 47

  That's huge.

  
  

  Me: Excuse me Mr. J. W. Cartman,

  Were you aware that the Watchtower used to teach that Jesus was "the Lord from heaven"?

  Them: No, that is not possible. The truth never changes.

  Me: It's true. It is printed right here in this book titled The Harp of God, written by a president of your church. It is located right next to this picture of Jesus hanging on a cross.

  
  
  
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  52

  What would happen if the religion just straight out gets outed as bad? The ORG admits to it and all the members get told to disperse

  by Starlight.vee in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  like the org just gives up and comes out saying that all of what they are saying is untrue and that there is no armageddon, nothing.

  how do y’all think the the members still in it would react?.

  there be a mental health crisis i perhaps.

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  Sea Breeze

  The angel told John not to worship him because that angel was not God, he was a minister of God which all angels are. And not only is Jehovah God a spirit but all angels are spirits, and all angels are God's sons', including Satan.

  I'm glad we cleared that up.

  Do not let anyone cheat you of your reward by delighting in false humility and the worship of angels, dwelling on those things which he has not seen, vainly arrogant due to his unspiritual mind. - Col. 2:18 MEV

  Now can you expalin to me from the bible how you are saved? Do you still personally reject the New Covcenant "for the forgiveness of sins" in Mt. 26: 27-28 ?
  
  
  
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  25

  Watchtower Used to Teach Jesus Was Not an Angel and was  "the Lord from Heaven" Who Died on a Cross!

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  .

  no wonder they instructed congregation elders to throw away old literature from kingdon hall libraries.

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  Sea Breeze

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  No wonder they instructed congregation elders to throw away old literature from Kingdon Hall Libraries.
• 
  52

  What would happen if the religion just straight out gets outed as bad? The ORG admits to it and all the members get told to disperse

  by Starlight.vee in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  like the org just gives up and comes out saying that all of what they are saying is untrue and that there is no armageddon, nothing.

  how do y’all think the the members still in it would react?.

  there be a mental health crisis i perhaps.

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  Sea Breeze

  Duran,

  Until you give up your heretical pagan worship of angels, you are stuck.

  In response to John’s wrongful attempt to worship an angel in Revelation, the angel says, “See that you do not do that! . . . Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10, NKJV). It is critical to understand that this statement is a response to John’s intention to worship the angel. Because of the construction of the clause in the original language (Greek), there are three common understandings of "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy":
  
  1. Jesus is the substance of all prophecy, or, put another way, Jesus is the common theme among all prophecy.
  2. All true prophecy bears witness about Jesus. Therefore, all prophecy should cause us to worship Him alone.
  3. The message or testimony given by Jesus is the essence of true prophecy. Jesus is the Word, and no prophecy comes to us except through Him, ultimately pointing to God as the source of all true prophecy.

  I put this little chart together that illustrates the CLEAR Christian teaching that Jesus is both fully God and fully Man.
  
  
  
  
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  52

  What would happen if the religion just straight out gets outed as bad? The ORG admits to it and all the members get told to disperse

  by Starlight.vee in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  like the org just gives up and comes out saying that all of what they are saying is untrue and that there is no armageddon, nothing.

  how do y’all think the the members still in it would react?.

  there be a mental health crisis i perhaps.

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  Sea Breeze

  Duran,

  Just explain how you can get saved. The bible commands Christians to be able to give an answer to anyone who demands a reason for the hope that is in you. It's a good test to see if someone is deluded. Do you really have no idea ? I believe, you do. I suspect that like most all heretics, you just don't like they way Jesus wants to do it.... where you are not able to contribute one iota towards your salvation, other than belief. The bible says all we can do is receive it. That's the part you don't like. Like all my JW relatives, you cant image sharing the planet with people who love Jesus and realize there is NOTHING they can personally do to change their condemnation other than RECEIVE the pardon Jesus offered.

  The only problem is, since you believe the Satanic lie that Jesus is really an angel, you are having a hard time allowing yourself to be posessed by this angel you call Jesus. And, that is quite understandable, since this is definitely condemned in the bible.
  
  As I keep pointing out, the bible says if we do not have the spirit of Jesus living inside us, we "are NONE of his".
  
  With your theology, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. For people really wanting to personally posess power over death, this delimma would be a major wake up call. This delimma, would drive them to rexamine their assumptions.

  Since you obviously reject the spirit of Chist to live inside of you, and the bible says that if you don't, you don't belong to Jesus. If you don't belong to Jesus, why should anyone learn Christian doctrine from a non-Christian?
  
  It dosn't make any sense. No one will listen to anything you have to say if you cannot explain from the bible how you are saved.
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  52

  What would happen if the religion just straight out gets outed as bad? The ORG admits to it and all the members get told to disperse

  by Starlight.vee in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  like the org just gives up and comes out saying that all of what they are saying is untrue and that there is no armageddon, nothing.

  how do y’all think the the members still in it would react?.

  there be a mental health crisis i perhaps.

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  Sea Breeze

  Duran, Duran, Duran,

  I put in thousands of hours in field service arguing WT doctrine before I decided to just let the word speak in its totality. You are looking for possible exceptions and then trying to make a solid Christian doctrine out of it, even it requires ignoring dozens of other scriptures to do it.

  And YES Jesus is an angel.

  
  [ 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet

  What if I reported in a newspaper article that such and such talented dynamic speaker had the voice of a freight train. No one would suspect that I was saying that the orator was actually a freight train! It is talking about the nature of the voice - "commanding", similar to an arch-angel.
  
  Duran,

  If you really believed Jesus was just a spirit, would you invite him into your being to possess you? Why won't you answer as to whether or not you have "obediently" done this? What are you hiding?
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  52

  What would happen if the religion just straight out gets outed as bad? The ORG admits to it and all the members get told to disperse

  by Starlight.vee in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  like the org just gives up and comes out saying that all of what they are saying is untrue and that there is no armageddon, nothing.

  how do y’all think the the members still in it would react?.

  there be a mental health crisis i perhaps.

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  Sea Breeze

  Duran,

  I once had shoulder surgery and had to give ALL my strength, might and works to my left arm while my right arm was healing.

  It really doesn't matter how he got it does it? That's not the point. As usual, heretics miss the clear and plain point of any scripture they don't like. Jesus has all power and authority in heaven and earth, that's what scripture says. You cannot change that scripture no matter how badly you want to. All means ALL.
  
  By the way, do you have a problem allowing an angel into your being? In other words, are you willing to allow an angel to posess you? Because, according to WT theology, that's what it will take to get saved. - "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ HE IS NONE OF HIS".

  My Father and I are one.”
  31 Again the Jews took up stones to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
  33 The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning You for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, claim to be God.”

  Everyone there understood Jesus was claiming to be God here. He did other things to prove he was God too, you know - little things, like raise himself from the dead, while he was dead.
  
  He forgave people's sins, somethiong ONLY GOD can do. When questioned about this seeming blasphemous declaration, he asked a simple question; "which is easier to do, forgive somone's sins or tell this lame man here to get up and walk? It really was useless to question Jesus' Godship when talking to him. He'd just do another "impossible" miracle if you did. It must have been remarkable to see him in action, in the flesh.
  
  In other words, just running around declaring you are God would do nothing. Lots of people have done that over the years. But, Jesus did things ONLY God could do. That's why Jesus is declared in scripture to be "God manifest in the flesh" (KJV, MEV, NKJV, LITV) as recorded in the vast majority of ancient bible manuscripts.

  Here's some of the early Christian leaders, some trained directly by an apostle that quoted this verse and referred to Jesus as "God manifest in the flesh":

  1 Timothy 3:16 as cited by Church Fathers

  • John William Burgon (1813 - 1888)
  • The Greek text
  • Ignatius (ca 50 - between 98 and 117
  • Dionysius of Alexandria (ca. 190 - 265 AD)
  • Didymus of Alexandria or Didymus the Blind (c. 309/314 - 398)
  • Diodorus of Tarsus (- 392)
  • Gregory of Nazianzus (c 325 - 389)
  • Gregory of Nyssa (c 335 – probably 395)
  • John Chrysostom (c. 347 - 407)
  • Cyril of Alexandria (c. 376 - 444)
  • Theodoret of Cyrus (c. 393 – c. 460)
  • Unknown author (430)
  • Unknown author, 5th century
  • Euthalius (5th century)
  • Conclusion
• 
  52

  What would happen if the religion just straight out gets outed as bad? The ORG admits to it and all the members get told to disperse

  by Starlight.vee in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  like the org just gives up and comes out saying that all of what they are saying is untrue and that there is no armageddon, nothing.

  how do y’all think the the members still in it would react?.

  there be a mental health crisis i perhaps.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Sea Breeze

  Let's just make a list here of things you will NOT hear at a JW Convention:
  
  1. Jesus predicted that he would ressurect himself from the dead and then did it.

  2. Jesus said that if you didn't have his spirit living inside of you, you were none of his.

  3. Jesus said "Come to Me", not Jehovah or an organization.

  4. Jesus said he had all power in heaven and earth.

  5. Jesus instructed people to ask him for everlasting life... "Ye have not because ye ask not".

  6. Jesus said that he and the father were one in the same.

  7. Jesus spoke of hell more than anyone else in the Bible. He referred to it as a place of “outer darkness” where “there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” In other words, all the joys that we associate with light will be withdrawn, and all the fears that we associate with darkness will be multiplied. And the result will be an intensity of misery that makes a person grind his teeth in order to bear it..... forever & ever, & ever, & ever.

  Like I said, Hitlers speeches were fast paced and informational too. They were very inspirational. Only later did the world (too late) find out how deadly the whole thing was.
  
  The WT is at least as deadly as Hitler in ruining people's futures.
• 
  52

  What would happen if the religion just straight out gets outed as bad? The ORG admits to it and all the members get told to disperse

  by Starlight.vee in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  like the org just gives up and comes out saying that all of what they are saying is untrue and that there is no armageddon, nothing.

  how do y’all think the the members still in it would react?.

  there be a mental health crisis i perhaps.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Sea Breeze

  The new drama of Jesus’ life is well produced.

  @ SBF - Did they show how Jesus said he would resurrect himself from the dead, while he was still dead, something only God can do?

  Because that is exactly what happened and why it was such a big deal. It is why there are bilions of Christians today. But, no. I'm sure he was depicted as your regular 'ole wise angel disguising himself as a man who didn't mind people kissing his feet and worshipping him. Did they remind viewers that Jesus, stated that he had the power to forgive sins, also something only God can do? Did they show people asking Jesus to forgive their sins? How about the many times Jesus said "Come to Me", not Jehovah? Oh, no. They will have none of the milk from the whore of Babylon.

  The talks and videos about the gospels

  You mean the good news that you get to go through the greatest time of gloal fear, mayhem and murder the world has ever seen and then work for your salvation for a thousand yeaers after that? Oh yes, I remember.... that gospel.

  The talks were fast-paced and informative.

  So were Adolph Hitler's speeches.